Have you heard this mantra lately? "The Middle Road" This is in referrence to your position on a theological issue. Whether it be the Calvinism/Arminianism debate...or, infant as opposed to adult baptism...or, modern/postmodern church. In politics this would be refered to as the"Mainstream" Another theological referrence is "Balance" (actually a eastern-monistic influence) ~Not that it is a bad influnce, either~ Anyways, the idea is that rather than always taking a polar (polarizational) stance on a issue (in this case, theological)...one takes a more 'middle road' view.
We (VCS) had a well known European Christian Apologist, Udo Middleman, here visiting this past week. He spent 22 years working at Lebre (sp?) in Switzerland. For those of you that aren't aware Lebre is a place (mountain retreat), started by Francis Schaffer, where people were/are welcome to come and discuss theological issues in an open forum with a very program-less format. Basically, they just talk a lot over lunch, dinner, over coffee, in the library, etc.. People from all cultures and religious backgrounds are welcome. The whole purpose is to come to a closer realization of Truth and Reality. Sort of a Modern version of Ancient Greek think-tanks. Pretty cool huh?! (This is what I hope this site to be on a somewhat smaller level).
And, of course, because we have a somewhat wide, diverse pool of Christian theological perspectives here...a few of these debated issues came up. One thing that Udo mentioned a number of times was this idea of "staying on the horse" so to speak or finding the "middle ground" on these issues is the wisest position to take. Traditionally, I would tend to agree with this philosphy. However, one thing I and others have noticed is that not many of these theologians that call us to take this "middle road" explain just how that is done. Maybe, this is something that just can't be explained and needs to just be discovered on our own. Of that, I have no problem.
My friend, Dan Hanna (Dan is a new teacher this year @ VCS that has been a real blessing to me both spiritually and personally....and, I'm not just saying that cause, you did Dan!)...anyways, my friend Dan has brought some questions and thoughts that have really challenged me in these areas. Like the idea of "Objective Truth". He lent me an article to read written by a Christian writer in which the title was, "There is no such thing as Objective Truth, and that's a good thing" Now, as I'm sure some of your reactions may be the same as mine was initially...WHAT?! After reading the article it really made a lot of sense. I mean, it is all things I have thought of somewhat before...but, for some reason didn't allow myself to entertain. The article basically talked about being able to prove something "Objectively" is impossible. We aren't capable of doing this.
Now. This flies in the face of a 100 years of Christian Apologetics. Thus, it is either bold....or just plain crazy for a Christian to say. However, the more I look into it...the more it makes perfect sense and actually frees me in many areas of my Christian walk. Before I go further I should probable explain something. What the article was NOT saying was that Objective or Absolute Truth doesn't exist....it's just that we will never be able to prove it. Therefore, what ever convictions we have are FAITH convictions...not Objective observational Truths.
So, I believe...and that is Faith...not, absolute knowledge. So, I have faith in Jesus Christ based on a number of factors....my experience with Him, other people's experiences, historical evidence, the design of the world, creation, the reality of humanity and the messiness of this world, truth, etc. Yet, all those factors make-up "my" belief or Faith if you will. This is not to be confused with relativism. I do not believe that "All roads lead to God" nor, do I believe you can get to Heaven on 'good intentions'. Nonetheless, this is still what I believe.
This was one reason for Nietzsche's statement 'God is dead.' It was stated at a time when Scientific 'proof' was the next great thing...and held in such high regard. What ended up happening is many Christians at the time responded by trying to appease this popular demand...by attempting to prove Christianity through science, history, archeology, etc.. Now, this phenomena didn't start at this time...however, it was the appex moment of this movement. Thus, when Nietzsche said, 'God is Dead' he was saying that FAITH in God was dying....dying to Scientific Method towards an understanding of God.
If we define Faith from the Bible's perspective we have a definition that says, "Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Heb. 11:1
So, when on makes a paradigm shift of this nature (from 'Objectivity' to faith) the need to land on one of the polar extremes of any arguement/debate/enigma, becomes less important.
Well, if you have read this far....I assume I struck something within you. Please, respond. I want to know your thoughts too.
Peace,
Andy
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3 comments:
I with you on that... I do want to, however, explore one of the statements you made in your post. Saying that He (God) controls everything. I need some more clarification as to what you mean. Do you mean that in a direct or indirect way? In other words, do you believe God to dictate (predestine) everything that happens in existance....or, that He is in control in a more indirect...yet, very influential sort of way? There is a huge epistemological difference here. Your thoughts?
There are two things I would like to dig a little deeper with here.. Game? I don't know why I ask...cause I'm sure you are....that is one of the things I like so much about you. Anyways..
First..
In regards to this part of your last comment...
"Before the world was created he knew that I would be writing this message today. He did nothing to stop me from writing it, it was part of his plan for the world. He could have, but he chose not to. I am writing it to you out of my free will, but if it is not in God's plan for you to receive it, then there is nothing I can do to get it to you."
I was wondering if you could explain to me from what basis or paradigm you draw this conclusion?
Second...
I would like to hear your thoughts on the condition of this world? Meaning...how do we address/explain/face the backwardness of this world?
Look forward to your response.
Love,
Andy
Wow, is right! :) I love it! You may not be a intelectual or a theologian....but, preacher might be in the cards! ;)
I really enjoyed much of what you shared. I especially liked the part about NOT being an intelectual,scholar, theologian...and not fearing being right or wrong. Your not having a 'reputation' at stake. I am with you, brother...let us simply pursue what is true and good.
If I am honest, I will have to admit that being 'right' or 'in the right' is something that my pride trips me into once in a while. I feel the past few years God has really done a work in this area, though. And, I praise him for it. That is part of the motivation for this site.
One of my first reactions is to want to address EVERYTHING you said in your response and come to a mutual understanding of what you believe and what I believe, NOW....however, freedom or lack of fear has helped me to realize that we don't need to come to an analogous understanding right away...or ever for that matter. So, thanks for the encouragement in that area.
I just like harmony. :) Learning to find the balance of harmony of our hearts...and respect for our minds may be the answer?
Oh yeah. And the second thing I really liked was the statement you made about, "The only thing they had to believe was that they needed the gift." I love that. We so often forget this. Thanks for the reminder. It reminded me of the Sonic Flood song, 'I need you.' I love that song for that very reason.
Ok, so, on to our discussion. I guess I've decided that rather then raise questions this time I would take the pen (or keys) and maybe share some of my thoughts on the subject. And like yourself, I don't expect that all of it is right.
My thoughts on God being in or outside of time are undecided, as of yet. I'm not sure I'll ever understand it either. So, this makes this whole discussion difficult to nail down. I know there are valid (biblical) reasons that suggest God being both out of time and very 'in-time'. The one that I wrestle with is God being out of time and it's relation to 'free will'. The Blueprint worldview, if you will (pardon the pun). I guess biblically I see the Warfare worldview as being more relevant to reality(the way things are).
The problem of evil is where most of the questioning comes in this debate. Does God exact evil...by way of His predestination or is evil a result of His creations falling. On one hand, in your response it sounds like you believe in the latter. Or at least you believe that evil is the result of the fall, however, God knew it was going to happen. This is where it get's fuzzy. Can God know an unchanging outcome of the future and it not be predestined? Currently, logic, inclines me to think not. However, I am willing to admit or believe that 'my' logic could be amiss or might not ever be able to undertand how God could do such a thing.
If it weren't for some other, biblical, alternatives I probably wouldn't question it. However, I believe there to be a few.
Now, I wouldn't label myself as an openness theologian (as most uneducated Christians would understand that to be), however, simply because I am open to a paradigm shift in this area...this would probably land me in that group, according to most Christians. As would my pastor (Greg Boyd). In accordance, I want to be very clear that I do not lean this direction soley because my pastor says it's so. I have never been a mindless follower of anyone and don't plan on ever doing such.
Yet, I have learned much in this arena from Greg...and other theologians (authors)...and feel there is much merit.
The idea is that God IS all knowing in the sense of Wisdom, knowledge(perception/understanding of things), information, etc. However, He seems (from what the Bible shows to have limitations or that he is limited. This is not in the conext of weakness or lack of anything. It is more in the conext of time. In other words, they way he has set up creation (A time constrainted creation/Has a begining and an end). Thus, the belief is that He has limited himself in this area of time when it pertains to His creation.
If you are interested... Book recomendation: "God of the Possible", Greg Boyd.
Another way to look at it is like this. God knows the future...in the sense that he knows every possible outcome in the future based on his infinite knowledge and wisdom. However, because of his gift of choice...He has consequently left that unknown.
I heard a great analogy at our International Christian Educators Conference by a man named Bill Brown (President, Cederville University). He said that he believed God's guidance(a finite analogy) to be like a OnStar service. You know what this is, correct? It is the voice automated GPS directional system in nice cars these days. Anyways, when you type in a destination the system gives you a route in which you should follow. It not only does this..(here comes the analogy)..but, when you take a wrong turn and go of course...a voice prompt states, "You have gone off course...we are now re-directing your path to your destination." I just love that.
God, in a sense, guides us....yet, when we turn from Him or vere off the path that He is leading us down...he calmy and efficiently gives us (through numerous ways) a new path from that time forward.
Oh how patient he is with us. Well, that is all for the time being. I must be responsible and get some work done. I look forward to your thoughts.
Thank you Steven for the sharpening.
In Christ,
Andy
P.S. Feel free to invite a few of your friends that might enjoy this sort of dialog.
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